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Wings Over America
Wings Over America
(2013 Remaster)

2002-Oct-30: Heather Chats with Larry King

This evening, Heather Mills McCartney was interviewed on CNN's Larry King Live television program and surprised viewers when she removed her artificial leg and handed it to her host.

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, she swept the Beatle icon off his feet, and the tabloids have been working overtime ever since, but she has her own incredible tale to tell. Rising from homeless shoplifter to fashion model, triumphing over poverty, child abuse, and a devastating accident that cost her a leg. Heather Mills McCartney for the hour next on Larry King Live.

She is the wife of Sir Paul McCartney. She's the good will ambassador for Adopt-A-Minefield, she is an amputee, a model, a motivational speaker. Other than that, nothing much happening. She's also the author of the new memoir, A Single Step.  There you see its cover. A Single Step by Heather Mills McCartney.

Mr. KING:  Now, explain this. This book is not new?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It's a new book with a new title, but I was asked at the age of 25, after I lost my leg, to write a book about my life because they found it very interesting, and I said, okay, and the money from that helped me do my charitable work...

Mr. KING: So this was how many years ago?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: ... but I never released it in America. This was nine years ago, when I was 25. Now I'm 34, nearly 35.

KING: The book never published...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Never published in America. So I thought, you know, it would be great because I could actually put it out and raise a lot of money, so all of my proceeds go to Adopt-A-Minefield.

Mr. KING: And it includes an updated version about the marriage?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yes. It's got many more chapters, because nine years is a long time since I last wrote the other one.

Mr. KING: How do they know enough about you at 25 to come and ask you to do a book?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: When I crossed a street in 1993, August 8, I heard two police cars go flying by, and I went, Whoa, and I was with a partner at the time that I was about to end the relationship with, and we were going to the park, and there was a red double-decker bus. So I sort of took a step and another step very cautiously after these police cars had gone by. And a motor bike came out and chopped my leg, crushed my pelvis, punctured my lung, and split my head open, and it was suddenly, "Model loses leg, police motorcycle" and they put me up on this pedestal because I overcame it very quickly, and for eight years I got the best press in the  world, and...

Mr. KING: You were a well known model in Britain?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Well known model and charity worker.

Mr. KING: Did that end the modeling career?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It did until a campaign that I did a year ago for Federated, that owned Macy's, Bloomingdale's, all that. They heard me do a speech, and collect an award with Hillary Clinton, and said will you come and model for us?

Mr. KING: Well, we'll talk a lot about the mine fields. We'll talk a lot about the book and your extraordinary story, but let's first deal with first things first. How's marriage so far?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Great. Really great.

Mr. KING: How did that whole thing work with the castle and Ireland and the secret, and where, when's it happening, and...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It was funny because I wanted to have a very quiet, small wedding and Paul said, " No, we're going to have a big wedding, it's going to be a big, white wedding, and I want the world to know I'm proud to be married to you, and we're not going to have to sneak off and let's do it properly."

So I was very flattered. And Paul's mother came from Monaghan County, and so we went to visit this castle, and I didn't know at the time when we were going there that he started to have plans on asking me to marry him. It was a year and a bit before. He'd bought a ring in India, and waited six months until our anniversary of meeting to...

Mr. KING: He does things like that?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Very romantic, yes.

Mr. KING: Romantic -- controlling as well, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, not really. Not really.

Mr. KING: But planning?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, very much so. He's got his ways, you know. I'm very like, Right now, and this and he's...

Mr. KING: What was it like to be married in a castle?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Beautiful, like a fairy tale. It was quite a quirky sort of castle, everything was falling apart when we sort of went there. You would sort of close the curtains and they weren't up on the hooks properly, and the enamel was coming off the bath, but we loved it, and there was a very eccentric guy in there who was one of the ancestors, he'd been around in the 80s, and used to take you around the room, and say this is the blue room, and there's a ghost in here, and we were like, Oh, yes. And a few guests saw the ghost. One of the guys got up a bit drunk in the night, went into the loo, and he saw this...

Mr. KING: A loo ghost.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: ... a woman with a lace dress sitting on the loo, and he thought, "Oh, my wife's on the loo."  Then he went back and saw that his wife was in the bed, and he started screaming because he saw this ghost in there. But it got out because this eccentric character came out and the press asked him, "Is Sir Paul McCartney and Heather Mills getting marrying in there?"   And he went," Oh no, I can't tell you that, it's a secret. " And they said, "Well, are they marrying on Tuesday"? He said, "No, no, I can't tell you that. It's Tuesday, but it's a secret. " So just very eccentric. And we happened to put the news on because we never get to watch the tele, and there it was, him telling the world, that it was us getting married there, and it was a secret, and we thought it was nicer for it to break that way rather than have press sneaking around.

Mr. KING: Now, in this year, you've been the subject of a lot of stories in tabloids, this happening, that happening. How do you -- I mean, it has to be new to you.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Well, it wasn't, because I was very well known in England and Europe for eight years. So I'd been in the press. I was used to that, but what I wasn't used to, because I had eight years of great press, was the negative response, and I realized why it happened. It took me a while. I was so shocked at first, and I'm very sort of tough on the outside, but like most people, I was very devastated initially.

Mr. KING: Why do you think it happened to you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It happened because I had written my life story at the age of 25, and I was very open with the press, and I knew all the editors. I spoke to them personally, and suddenly when I met Paul I just went, no comment. I've got nothing to say. Because I so wanted him to know that I wasn't with him for anything except the relationship, and I took it too far. I think I just went no because I was worried about what his children would think...

Mr. KING: I remember on this show you said...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: You remember.

Mr. KING: I asked you, how did -- you're a very talkative, lively person, because later when I saw you in Vegas, you were all over. But that night, you were -- how did you meet? Don't want to talk about that.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I said, "We're here to talk about land mines, Larry". And you went, "Oh".

Mr. KING: Okay, yes. And that's because you were uptight about dealing with it in front of him, or making him feel like...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Because I was -- when we first met, he said just say nothing, say no comment. And I went, OK. And it was very early days, so I said nothing. But then he would always talk about our relationship, so I was coming across as the sort of cold, quiet one because I was trying to respect him. I wanted his kids to know that I loved him, and I was never going to exploit...

Mr. KING: Was that a mistake?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It was, yes. Looking back on it, it was a mistake.

Mr. KING: So you think that they hunted -- they got to you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: They just went, Bugger you, and they got the knives out and went. Because they helped me get into the position of becoming this woman that overcame adversity, and helped my charity, and we had a good relationship.

Mr. KING: When they printed things that weren't true, how do you react -- which, probably, most are not true, or fragments are true...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: There's always elements of truth in everything that is printed, but it's the way they twist the whole thing. Like they'll say, "You know that when she -- she stole, and she did this and she did that".  But they don't say, "She stole, and she wrote about it, honestly, in her book nine years ago."   And they'll say, "And she said this, and she did that".  But they don't say -- they write exclusive, and I wrote about it in my book nine years ago.

Mr. KING: What Paul didn't know about Heather.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, exactly. And stories. They'd interview like my ex-husband, and he'd talk about our sex life, and people would say," How do you feel about that?" And I'd say, "Well, that's why he's my ex-husband.   What do you want?"  And then they'd interview my mother's last boyfriend before she died that was very mentally abusive to her, and all I said was I left home at a young age because he wanted me to.   So they tracked him down, and he said, "Oh, no, she's a fruitcake, she's made it all up, which drove my family and friends crazy."  But he's a penniless out of work actor, so they pay him. They don't say, "We have paid this man 50,000 pounds to say these things". They just write it.

Mr. KING: And what did that do to you, emotionally?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It was -- initially, it was -- I was devastated. I was so shocked. I thought, I'm not somebody who's trying to make millions, you know, trying to be a movie star or anything, all I'm trying to do is keep promoting my charity work to make a difference. So why are you targeting me? Why are you doing this? Why aren't you helping me make a difference? Why is there so much hate? And I think what happens is that the editors presume that a lot of the public would hate our union, so they would feel that they would be getting the public on their side by going, Yes, you know, she's like this, and she's like that.  And it didn't work like that. I got thousands -- if it hadn't been for the public support that I had, I don't know how upset I would have got about it, but I then just took control, and I went, "You know what, if it means that I've got to suffer to carry on doing good, then that's what my role is in life".  But I feel eventually these people, especially after September 11, I thought people would start to want to make a difference more, even the editors that hide behind the desks would start...

Mr. KING: People are like they are, huh?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. You've got to feel sorry for them.

Mr.  KING: The book is A Single Step. The original book, some years back, was Out On A Limb.  Great title, by the way.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Thank you.

Mr. KING: And all the proceeds from this book goes to the charity of Adopt-A-Minefield, right? You don't make a penny.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I don't make anything, no.

Mr. KING: One penny from the book. Okay, his first marriage was so public and his feelings for her were so public. Does Linda at all invade this marriage?


Mr. KING: Is she present?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. I mean, we just did a big donation to a vegetarian society in her name. Because to me it's like, you know, she sort of laid the foundations to put together this great guy that knows how to love and be romantic. And I just believe behind every great man there's a great woman.

Mr. KING: So she helped make him a better husband for you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, definitely.

Mr. KING: The reverse is not true?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, not at all.

Mr. KING: What was your first marriage like?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It was a nightmare. I had two ectopic pregnancies, when they grow in the tubes, and my husband wasn't there for me at all. I brought up his step kids for six years, and he would just sleep on the couch every weekend.  And after my ectopics he said, "You need a holiday". And I was like, "Oh, great, where are we going to go"? He said, "No, no, you can go with the ex-wife skiing. " And luckily I got on great with the ex-wife because we used to share looking after the kids.

Mr. KING: When people are in relationships like that, the obvious questions is why did you stay?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I stayed because I'd gone -- had a childhood with a very abusive father. So like my mother went from physically and mentally abusive relationship, she went into a mentally only abusive relationship and left my father.  I went from a nightmare father, and my first like major boyfriend, I had one boyfriend before that, was the guy that I married. I met him when I was very young, and I was with him for six years. And it was a ready-made family. He had a child that was six months, but they'd been split up, as soon as she felt pregnant they'd spilt up. And he had a child that was four years.  So for me it was this is this family and my life's going to be like this family now. And I just had these fantasies. And I suppose I was in love with him, first of all. As I've got older I've started to define love in different ways. But I just kept trying to make it work. And when I realized that I was just staying at home all the time.

Mr. KING: Was it difficult to write about?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, it was. Not this time. Not the update because it's very happy in the last nine years.

Mr. KING: But the first time had to be.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: But the first time was difficult because it was going through my whole life and, you know, my mother lost her leg at the same age as me, and they reattached it. And then my father would just beat her up all the time, even when she was on crutches, he would just throw her in a bath of hot water.

Mr. KING: Any other siblings?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, I've got two little sisters. One, the youngest, Claire, has a different mum. So my dad had a second chance to make it work. They don't speak to him, either. Now he's in another relationship a third chance, and she's already left. And he just doesn't get it.

Mr. KING: Do you see him at all?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, I stopped seeing him when I lost my leg because they called up the hospital and said, Your father's on the phone. And I was like, Oh, great. And all he said was, I want a new TV and video, because I helped finance him out of his debt because he went to prison when I was 13 and my mother turned up. I hadn't seen her for four years in London. I lived with her and her new boyfriend for six months, then I left and went to live on a traveling fair.

Mr. KING: You're obviously very beautiful. I bet you didn't know it when you're treated that way.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. I was a tomboy. I was the ugly duckling. You know, I used to strap my boobs down when I did the hurdles running. It was like everything was a nuisance.

Mr. KING:: Play it down.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. Because I said to my dad, when my mother left, I said I need a bra, I said, I'm starting to get breasts. And he went, No, he said, just, you know, strap them down or do something. So I was like black masking tape running over the hurdles.

Mr. KING: You know, you've actually then been happier since you lost your leg.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, much happier. It was an enlightening period for me. I was in the hospital. And all I'd ever done in my life was take care of everyone. I'd never allowed anyone to take care of me.  And I say allowed because when I was ill my friends went, "At last we can do something for you, all you do is take care of us all."  And I was like, "Really? "  And the people that turned up at the hospital when I had my accident, I was so overwhelmed. It was like the most  love that I'd ever felt at that point in my life.

And my sister was in hospital with me 24 hours a day for all the months that I was in there. And she, you know, would wet nurse me and take care of me. We'd sneak out of the hospital on crutches and go and see "La Boheme" and then she'd sneak me back in again, and I was full of infection. It was a crazy time. But it was the most...

Mr. KING: Do you have any happy memories as a kid? Did you have happy Christmases?


Mr. KING: Nothing happy?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. I don't remember.

Mr. KING: So your life as a kid is like a black pit?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. But it made me who I am today. You know, I became a businesswoman at a very young age because my father thought he was the reincarnation of Richard Wagner. So we'd put together animated...

Ms. KING: He thought he was the reincarnation...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, he thought he was the reincarnation of Richard Wagner, the opera composer.

Mr. KING: Did he write music?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: He played about six different instruments, but he just used to play the ring  all day. And he forced me to play the oboe. And I said, " But I want to play the saxophone" . He said" , No, it's not feminine enough" . So as soon as I got out of the house I threw away the oboe away and learned saxophone. And just did everything the opposite. And he just used to have us in a regiment, you know: clean this, do this, do that.

Mr. KING: So adversity became a plus for you? You used it?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, I only knew about overcoming. When things weren't going wrong, I was always in a dilemma, like what's going to happen next?

Mr. KING: Did your father like the Beatles?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Apparently so, my sister said. But I only remember Wagner. You know, I don't remember any of the Beatles. I was never knowledgeable about their music.

Mr. KING: You weren't a Beatle fan?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. I am now, though.

Mr. KING: But you weren't the kind of kid who...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. In fact, I was pretty -- well, I left home when I was 13, and I worked you know, my whole life, and I never had any icons. If I ever had an icon, it would be like somebody political like Gandhi or Malcolm X, that was what would make my skin tingle, not somebody singing songs. Or some classical composer.

So when I met Paul, he was saying, " Oh, I wrote this and I did that, and I've acted a bit" . And I said, "Yes, in that 'Yellow Submarine'," but that was animation, that wasn't you acting. And he said," I've done more than one film, Heather."  I was like, Have you? And now I  know, you know, the songs and everything.

Mr. KING: What caused you to shoplift?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: When I left home at 13, I lived on the streets for four months. My mother had an ultimatum for...

Mr. KING: Lived on the streets?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. My mother was given an ultimatum from her boyfriend. He had cancer, a malignant tumor. He'd been married three times before, had lots of kids, he had no relationship with any of them. And he said, "Either she goes or I go". And I left when I was 13. My mother told the government that I was having private tuition. And mentally I was very old because nine to 13,  I brought the family up till my father went to prison and met my mum again. So...

Ms. KING: Is your mother alive?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. She died because of bad circulation in her leg because she lost it and...

Ms. KING: Was that sad for you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, it was really sad because I'd only got close to her three weeks before and she kept saying, If only I could get some money I would leave Charles, this guy. And so I worked like crazy to get this money together. And then she got a blood clot that went in her heart and lungs, and she died. And it didn't happen.

Mr. KING: What a life she's led. You were abducted by a pedophile swimming instructor?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. Yes.

Mr. KING: Jeez.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: When I was about, I think it's seven and a half -- but because I was younger, the other girl, Margaret, was like a couple of years older. I didn't get...

Mr. KING: He bothered her more?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. I sort of, you know, he would do naughty things in front of me but not actually physically do anything to me but to her. She was in trouble and...

Mr. KING: You couldn't escape or anything?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. Well, this is the thing, he'd send one of us out and say that he would kill the other one if we didn't come back.

Mr. KING: Did you think, Heather that there was a black cloud hanging around you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I didn't know any different. It's only like looking back on it I realize it was a very sort of strange life.

Mr. KING: Strange.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: My mother and father were always sort of fighting and arguing and everything and she tried to climb out of the bathroom window and it was quite high up, and he pulled her back in, and they had these little spiked things on the window.   And she started crying, and he had -- I just remember he had this dog that used to do these amazing tricks. So I didn't really know too much of what was going on.

Mr. KING: You were a kid.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: And she went to the shop one day and then went and got the police, and he knew by then that she hadn't come back.

Mr. KING: What was it like, that period when you were shoplifting? What was it like to live on the streets? Not knowing where you're going to sleep, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Do you know what? I have to say, until much, much later -- at that time I felt free. And I don't encourage any kids to leave. But I was being so badly abused mentally at that time, it was more physically and mentally before, that I just didn't want to be told what to anymore.  You know, I had my mom, who'd left us when we were nine, telling me what to do at 13, when I brought the family up for four years.  And this new boyfriend of hers, to us new but to her she'd been with him a few years, being, you know -- we wouldn't allowed to eat with them. We were told to stay in our room and...

Mr. KING: So you were kind of free on the streets?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. I mean, exactly. I lived in a sort of Waterloo Arch area, it was called in the U.K., and I stole food and I stole clothes just to survive. I didn't want to sit begging like some people do.

Mr. KING: Did you ever prostitute yourself?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, never. Never.

Mr. KING: Ever tempted to?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. In fact, in those days it was more mentholated spirits. It wasn't so much drugs and I didn't get to see sort of any prostitution in the four months I was there.  But what I got to saw was people who would just give you their last piece of bread, you know, that you can't even get. And I find that when I go to countries like Cambodia and India, you know, they'll give you -- after the Indian earthquake I went back there, and they literally didn't know where their next meal was coming from, and they'd make me eat their rice.

Mr. KING: I heard in Afghanistan they give you anything. People in torn up homes, bombed out homes.

Mr. MCCARTNEY: Because they suffered, and I think when you suffer in life you go one of two ways, you either become a criminal and go on that path and get really angry and abusive, or you go completely the other way and you just want to make a difference and you get that kind of passion to realize what life's about and how lucky we are and that we should all be here making a difference.

Mr. KING: What is it like to lose a leg? Like when you wake up.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I didn't know. You don't feel it. Because I still feel my leg's there.

Mr. KING: So you thought you felt toes?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I woke up, and my sister came in. All I remember is this horrible feeling on my pelvis. That was the most painful area because my entire pelvis was crushed. My sister came in and was crying and she said, " You're not going to believe this, you've lost your leg" .  And I said, "Never mind my leg, What about my pelvis? it's killing me. Give me some painkillers"  . And she said, "We can't give you any painkillers because your lung's punctured and that will slow the respiratory system down and you've got to stay with this".  And they announced to her four times that they were about to get the priest in, that I was meant to die. And it wasn't until -- for me I had no parents to fund me anymore or my brother and sister. I was paying for my brother in college and I was funding my sister at the time. And all I kept thinking about is, "How am I going to pay all the bills? " You know, what am I going to do? And that's why I got involved with the press. When they kept asking for my story. They said, "You know, we want your story" . And I said, "Well, how much are you going to pay for it?"  They said, "We don't pay for stories." I said, "Well, Get out of my room. I can watch the television or listen to some classical music."  So it was survival instinct.  And then my leg kept getting more and more infected and they chopped more and more off. And I didn't want to lose my knee. So I came to America to a health institute and healed myself with wheat grass, and carrot juice and all sorts of things. Got a leg for $1500 from the local orthopedic shop. The guy said stay on crutches, so, of course, as soon as I when I went out, I threw that away.  Six weeks later it was too big, and I took it to the National Health Service that we have in Britain, and said, "This cost me $1500 why don't you reuse it?" And they went, "Oh, no, no, we're not paid to dismantle." And I said, "Well, how many thousands of amputees have legs that just sit in the cupboard?"  Did a national appeal, found out the count was 67,000 amputees with arms and legs in the cupboard. And so I just got people to send them to me, not realizing how many. And my house was suddenly full of these limbs...

Mr. KING: What did you do with them?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Collected them. And then I thought, "Who does bugger off and costs us a fortune? Prisoners."  So I got all the prisoners in all the prisons trained to take them apart, put them into boxes and ship them to Zagreb.  And then I found out after we'd fitted up over 27,000 all over the world that the limbs in England weren't very good. So I designed this leg, which I'll pop off actually if you don't mind.

Mr. KING: Not at all.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Just to show -- this is just basically, not to be dramatic, but just to show people.

Mr. KING: Where does your leg end?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It ends just below the knee. So this is to show people the quality of the leg that you can actually get.

Mr. KING: It feels like a leg.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. But in America you don't have that quality here.

Mr. KING: Now -- pick your leg up again. What do you...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: There's a screw on the end of it.

Mr. KING: Do you have any feeling there?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, yes, yes. Full feeling. Completely.

Mr. KING: Full feeling?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Full feeling. If you touch it, it makes me feel like my toes are completely opening and -- Paul's going to get upset you're touching my leg, Larry.

Mr. KING: Now this was amazing. This did not turn Paul off.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, not at all.

Mr. KING: Because you can imagine many men...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Or any boyfriends before that. Every guy I've been out with has asked me to marry them within a week, so, not at all.  It's about confidence. You know, you can have a woman -- I know lots of models are skinny, look beautiful, they're fantastic and they can't get a boyfriend. And then I know women that are like 25, 30 stone ...

Mr. KING: Now this is a great toe.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, it's beautiful isn't it?

Mr. KING: This is a beaut.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I'm going to try and make them available in American because they look completely real. And that's what gave me the confidence and -- because you wear short skirts. You know, you get your femininity back, so...

Mr. KING: And do they try to match your leg?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: They match it exactly, yes. They asked me, do I want any varicose veins. I said, "Are you kidding?"  I said, "All the women are getting surgery to take them out."

Mr. KING: What does a thing like this cost?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: That costs about $4000 but the ones in America cost $5,000 to $10,000, and they don't look anywhere as good as that. Usually America's so far advanced in medicine, I thought they'd have great limbs. So I'm trying to work with them to get it made available over here.

Mr. KING: Can you give it flat shoes too?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. Oh, yes. Every leg is made for a different heel height. So that is my high heel. And I have one for roller-blading, skiing, all that kind of stuff.

Mr. KING: You're a gutsy broad, Heather.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Thank you.

Mr. KING: Heather Mills McCartney. The book is A Single Step.  And all proceeds go to Adopt-A-Minefield. And we're going to go to your phone calls right after this.


We're going to go to your phone calls. The book is A Single Step.  The author is Heather Mills McCartney.  And by the way, we want to remind you, the Night of a Thousand Dinners. This is a fund-raiser for Adopt-A-Minefield. It's going to be held on December 5. Friends, family members, and colleagues come to dinner all over, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: All over. And instead of bringing a bottle of wine bring a donation. And $30 makes a child walk again.

Mr. KING: Thirty dollars?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Thirty dollars.

Mr. KING: And if you want information, it's

Ms. MCCARTNEY: As in the numbers one, zero, zero, zero.

Mr. KING: One, zero, zero, zero

Let's go to calls for Heather Mills McCartney. Dallas -- hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Hi, Heather.

Mr. KING: Hi.


CALLER: Heather, you've been obviously an outspoken advocate for a cause that you're obviously passionate about, and now you're married to a man who's arguably one of the most powerful, wealthiest, most visible and famous people on the Earth. Are you finding it challenging to maintain your same sense of personal individuality and purpose?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Not really.

Mr. KING: Good question.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: If I take notice of the press then yes. But I generally don't read it, I just pass it to my lawyers and we sue and then win and then the money goes to Adopt-A-Minefield.

Mr. KING: You do sue, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I sue. And I win.

Mr. KING: But his question is how do you separate from feeling like Mrs. McCartney?

Mr. MCCARTNEY: By doing things like this. By putting my own story forward in a book. Raising money for the charity. And the bottom line is if you worry too much about your own individuality and about getting too much credit for the work you do you don't get a lot achieved.  Whenever I've tried to help the people in England, I've gone to the House of Lords and I've sort of took the hereditary lords that generally don't have many ideas for a cup of tea and a scone and I've given them the whole package and said, "OK, this is your idea, you go forward with the whole thing, it's very much like the lobbyists."   So for me, you know, Paul and I coming together. When Diana got involved with the land mine campaign with us, you know, she was the big powerful figure. And that's what helped make a huge difference. And I was the person behind the scenes.

Mr. KING: Do you like being called the New Diana?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I laugh because she joined us four or five years after I'd started.

Mr. KING: But she really got involved?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: She was amazing, too.

Ms. KING: Queen Noor too?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, Queen Noor's fantastic. And now Paul's doing the same thing for us with using his celebrity to make a difference.

Mr. KING: One thing about Paul is he's non celebrity. He's not an affected person.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: He's so down to Earth.

Mr. KING: Like from Brooklyn. I mean, he's real.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, he's totally real.

Mr. KING: To Warren, Arkansas -- hello.

CALLER: Yes. I wanted to ask Heather if her and Paul plan to have any children and how she gets along with Paul's children. I also would like to say that, Heather, you have inspired me. I have cerebral palsy. And you're an inspiration to me. And I just really admire you and look forward to reading your book.

Mr. KING: Thank you.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Thank you very much.

Mr. KING: The book is "A Single Step." OK.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I get along with the kids great.

Mr. KING: You do? Because there are stories you that don't.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, I know. But if I'm an editor and I want to think of the worst scenarios between any relationship, you're going to see, one, she's got a problem with the late wife. Two, she's got a major problem with the kids, they've got a problem with her. It's easy to make up...

Mr. KING: It's not a story if you get along?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Exactly. But I get along with the eldest, Heather, the most. We speak every day, and we're very, very close. And she calls me the angel.

Mr. KING: Do you want a child?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I'd love to have kids, but after my two ectopic pregnancies I don't know if I can. And I don't want to go through any more operations...

Mr. KING: How about adopt? you adopt a minefield.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Well exactly. I might possibly think about that in the future, but having just become a newlywed I want to see how it goes and enjoy...

Mr. KING: It's wonderful. Many people adopt children.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, I know.

Mr. KING: There is Bob Considine's great line, "I have four children, two are adopted, I forget which two."

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, that's great.

Mr. KING: And Paul loves kids, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. He's great.

KING: Waleska, Georgia -- hello.  So you may well adopt?


Mr. KING: Waleska, Georgia -- hello.

CALLER: Heather, the lady just took my question. So I'll have to ask something else. Where do you and Paul live now?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Wherever we lay our hat, basically. We're on tour at the moment. So we move around all the time. Our main base is in London, in the U.K. But we're just all over the place. Hotels at the moment.

Mr. KING: What is it like not to have to ask the price of something?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I always ask the price of something. I'm a bargain queen.

Mr. KING: You are?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. I just -- I've always earned a lot of money for a long, long time. And I am totally independent. I don't rely on my husband in that way whatsoever. So I always look at everything that has a price on.

Mr. KING: Santa Barbara, California -- hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Hi, Heather.


CALLER: I'm curious, were you surprised at the level of adoration Paul received when he toured the U.S., and has he ever asked you to play in the band?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: He's asking me to play with him on saxophone, but we play indoors, and that's as far as it's ever going to go.

Mr. KING: And different kind of play.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I like jazz and all that kind of stuff.

Mr. KING: But what about watching him work?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, watching him work was amazing to see so many people adore him because I've never been one of those screamy, fanny kind of people. So watching people just -- the signs they hold up. It's fantastic.

Mr. KING: How about watching him perform?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: He's cute. But I get it privately in the house. So that's the best.

Mr. KING: He sings at home?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yes.

Mr. KING: Writes songs at home?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yes. A lot.

Mr. KING: When you see him generate that excitement -- by the way, does he ever bomb? I mean, does he ever have a bad night?

Mr. MCCARTNEY: No. Even when he was full of flu, he just goes for it and sounds great.

Mr. KING: 2 1/2 hours, and he doesn't sweat, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Does not sweat at all. He always smells great.

Mr. KING: Smells the same after a performance as before?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Well, I like him if he's gone for a run. He smells -- that's when I knew I was in love with him, because he smelled so good.

Mr. KING: Dayton, Georgia -- hello. Hello, Dayton, Georgia. Are you there?

CALLER: Hi. This is Dayton, New Jersey.

Mr. KING: Oh, New Jersey. They told me Georgia. Go ahead.

CALLER: Oh, okay.  Heather, I think the work you do with the amputee children is really wonderful. I have an 11-year-old son who was born with his lower right leg missing. And I just was wondering where you get these wonderful looking prosthesis because I sure would like to have something similar for him.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: If you go onto my Web site or e-mail we can give you all the information where you can get this prosthesis.

Mr. KING: Give that again.




Mr. KING: And you get information on where to buy them, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. Yes.

Mr. KING: Durant, Oklahoma, for Heather Mills McCartney, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry.

Mr. KING: Hi.


CALLER: Hello, Heather.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Hello there.

CALLER: Heather, I think you're such an elegant, inspiring woman. And I think you make a great companion for Paul. I think the perfect companion.  And I would like to ask, Has he ever been inspired to write any songs for you?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: The latest album, most of the songs on there are about me and our relationship, Driving Rain. And he wrote a song called Heather, because he woke up one morning and it was really, really funny because he was playing on the piano, and because I don't know all of his music, it was a really nice piece, and I said, " What song's that? Was that a Beatles song?"    And he went, " No, I'm just making it up" . So I said, "Get the recorder, Get the recorder."   So I always make a sure a recorder stands by because he never plays it as good the second time. So, we didn't have a recorder. So I -- he was sitting there playing, and he had to wait 20 minutes while I found one. I said, "Just keep playing, don't change it."  Recorded it and he went into the studio, recorded it and it became -- it was called Heather.  So most of Driving Rain is about me.

Mr. KING: You say you like jazz, right?


Mr. KING: So whose your favorite musician?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: People like Charlie Parker, Cannonball. David Sanborn was the reason I started playing the saxophone.

Mr. KING: People that went for the hunt, they went for the extreme. No one like Parker ever.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. Never ever.

Mr. KING: Our guest is Heather Mills McCartney. She is her own person. The book is A Single Step. Back with more calls after this.


Heather Hills -- Heather Mills McCartney. The book is A Single Step. Citrus Heights, California, hello.

CALLER: Good evening, Mr. King and Mrs. McCartney.

Mr. KING: Hi.


CALLER: Pleased to make your acquaintance over the phone. Like your husband, I'm also a musician, and I've only played by ear piano and guitar, and my simple question is, what is your favorite Beatles song?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: To be honest, I think Here, There, and Everywhere is probably my favorite, and one of my favorite songs that Paul has ever written is Here Today that he wrote for John, and of course Loving Flame that he wrote for me, but Here Today  and She's Heaving Home, the harmonies on that.

Mr. KING: He didn't know he wrote Yesterday, right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No, he said he woke up and dreamt it. And he said maybe I didn't dream it, maybe I heard it on a radio, and then finally realized he had written it.

Mr. KING: Isn't that pretty?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, very pretty.

Mr. KING: Just think of it, ta,ta-tum. Don't need any more than that.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, that's right.

Mr. KING: Legrande, Oregon, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Heather. It's great talking to you, and I respect your work. My question is, as newlyweds what have you and Paul learned about each other during the U.S. tour?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: A lot because we're together 24 hours a day. So I've learned that I am bossy.

Mr. KING: You are?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I am bossy, yes. But in a nice way. But I've also learned that my husband quite appreciates it because I'm very kind of sort of organized.

Mr. KING: Do you fight?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yeah.

Mr. KING: You do?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Absolutely.

Mr. KING: What's the biggest thing you fight about?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: My bossiness probably. No. Just our ways. You know, we're sort of -- the first year you're sort of getting to know each other, living together and all that way. I think if you love somebody you have to argue sometimes. I think these people that say we never argue, I'm like, "Well, you're not madly in love because, you know, when there's that much passion involved you're going to argue sometimes." So yes, we have our arguments. But they're usually about just silly little things.

Mr. KING: And this -- you know, it's hard when you've attained a lot of fame to treat the mate as an equal. Does he?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yeah.

Mr. KING: You know, because a lot of times, I mean, it can go to your head, you know, You're a superstar.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: He's no different to any other man in that way, you know. Men generally always think they're right anyway.

Mr. KING: Oh, really?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. You and your wife, you never ...

Mr. KING: I'm usually right.

Ms.  MCCARTNEY: Yeah, exactly. But we've learned to sort of communicate our views on things, and whoever's more adamant about something, then you sort of ...  it's just give and take, really. But I will always, like stand up for something I believe in. I will never become a yes woman. Never.

Mr. KING: Are you jealous of all the females who are attracted to and show their attraction to him?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. Because it's quite funny, because my sister said the other day, You know, how do you feel, all these women hanging about all over the front of the thing with their boobs hanging out and everything? And I was like, "Oh, are they?"  And then I started to look. I wasn't really sort of having a look. Because he's always communicating to me all the time from stage, he's always checking if I'm there, blowing me kisses. You know, he's always just letting me know.  So maybe if he wasn't as romantic and reassuring as he was, then maybe I would, you know, worry about it. But he's so trustworthy.

Mr. KING: Well, he might have cause to worry, too. I would imagine men give you a look upon occasion.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Mr. KING: Toledo -- This is not shocking. Toledo -- and you take off the leg and hand it to them.  Toledo, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hi. Hi, Larry. Hi, Heather.

Mr. KING: Hi.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Hi there.

CALLER: Hi.  , I was just wondering, I've just also gotten off the tour of the Midwest with Paul McCartney. And I was wondering, I think I saw you in a few of the audiences. With you being at the shows and that, how are the people around you? Do they talk to you? Do they ask you questions?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yeah. They do, actually. They lean over and of course, I'm not used to the security thing. You know, so the security people go, "Don't talk to her"  because they're trying to protect me because you know, you can get some crazy people like poor John and George got. So .. but I'm like, "It's okay."  You know, and I'll sign things and I'll say, "Hi" and, you know, sort of  ... and there's lots of signs they hold up saying, "We Love Heather. No More Land mines." Because I got Paul to wear this month more land mines t-shirts on the encores. So everyone's buying the t-shirts for the charity. And now they're all holding up "No More Land mines" and showing support and "We Love Heather And Paul." And there's loads of those signs in the audience. So, you know, it's really nice.

Mr. KING: People are nice, aren't they? His fans, also, are a wide age group, aren't they?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, I mean, from the age of four to 64. Amazing.

Mr. KING: You had to put -- younger than me, huh? Okay.

We'll be back with our remaining moments with Heather Hills -- Heather Mills McCartney. Why do I keep saying Hills?  The book is A Single Step.  Don't go away.


We're back, and for those of you watching on television, we are simulcast on radio as well.  These are shots of Heather Mills McCartney, modeling for INC -- right?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: That's right. I basically was getting an award with Hillary Clinton, Sarah Ferguson the day before the twin towers disaster on the 10th of September, and I got a phone call from my assistant saying the head of Macy's marketing, Federated, INC, wants you to model for them, and I said , "Well I don't model, I haven't modeled for years", and she said, "Yes, but they are going to want to help the charity", and this is like having a conscience the day before the twin towers disaster. And I said okay.   So they agreed to donate, at that time, the first year, a percentage of the sales of clothes to Adopt-A-Minefield, and the campaign went great, they had the best sales. The clothes were great. I said if I like the clothes, I'll do it. And now, I've designed a "No More Land Mines" T-shirt, different design to this one, that is on sale at all their stores, and it costs $10, and the whole of the $10 goes to Adopt-A-Minefield.

Mr. KING: Where were you on 9/11?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: I was in an airplane, JFK.

Mr. KING: With Paul?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: About to take off.

Mr. KING: Were you with Paul?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: With Paul. Looked out the window, and saw all this smoke, and Paul said, "Oh, there's -- you know, something's happened, it's on fire. " And I just went, "Oh, my God, terrorism. " Because of the work that I'm involved with, I just know the anger towards America and Britain.

Mr. KING: So you were seeing it from the twin towers at JFK? It was a very beautiful, clear morning.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: It was so clear. And then...

Mr. KING: Did your plane take off or not?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Just about to take off, and it stopped, and then I saw the second one hit.

Mr. KING: You saw it hit?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes. The second one. And there was smoke everywhere. And you just -- it wasn't an accident. We just knew then definitely. And we got taken off. But we couldn't go into Manhattan, so we went up the coast just to sort of stay there for a few days, and I had to go back to England. So I got on the first flight when the airport opened, because for me, when you're going to go, you're going to go.

Mr. KING: How did Paul react?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Paul was in shock and felt, like, helpless, and I said -- he was planning on doing a concert in Russia, and I said, "Why don't you do a concert for the New York people? They're going to need help."  And because he was just bringing out his album, Driving Rain, he said," I don't know, it might look bad, it might look like I'm trying to promote my album." I said, "Why do you worry about what people think? If it's going to raise money for these people that need it so much, just do it."  So a few days later he said, "Yes, I'm going to do it", and we met up with Harvey Weinstein and VH-1. And then, I had been watching -- what's his name -- Bush -- what's his name?

Mr. KING: The president, he's in...

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Yes, yes, yes -- that's his name -- talking about freedom, so I said, "Why don't you write a song about freedom?" And he said, "That's a good idea. " And then he wrote it, and it was -- and I just arranged it a little bit, and then he sang it, and at Madison Square Garden we raised over $40 million.

Mr. KING: But he was really shaken by that?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Shaken, yes. And then I went down to all the firefighters and handed out lots of tickets, took him down to a couple of stations, and that lifted them.

Mr. KING: What was it like when you flew out? Were you scared?

Ms. MCCARTNEY: No. I'd worked in the war for, you know, years before I lost my leg. So I was just used to that kind of environment. And for me, you know, why did I not lose my leg in the war, in Bosnia? Why did I lose it when I came back to England? So wherever I am, and a disaster happens, I know it's happened for a reason. We were in India, Paul and I went for a holiday in January a few years ago, left, two days later there was an earthquake in the region where we'd been. So I went back three weeks later, and set up amputee clinics there.

Mr. KING: Boy, to sit on a plane and see it from ... Heather, I wish you nothing but the best.

Ms. MCCARTNEY: Thank you very much.

Mr. KING: If you buy this book, you're helping a great cause and you're going to read a terrific read with an honest lady who lays it out. The book is A Single Step. She's the goodwill ambassador for Adopt-A-Minefield, and all proceeds go to Adopt-A-Minefield. Heather Mills McCartney.

(kindly submitted by PLUGGED correspondent Joan M. Hopkins)


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